Hampshire - Suffolk - Rutland - Herefordshire Tree

RL 13/7/07: In addition to the claim that this Mary L appears in the 1851 census as a servant in Winchester St Thomas, we may speculate whether she was the Mary L recorded as a Witness to the marriage of her younger sister Lydia to Aaron Atwood(s) in 1811. She would seem to be the most likely candidate, along with either her brother Thomas b abt 1779 or their father Thomas. We have found no record of either her marriage or her death before 1811 (or later), either of which events may be recorded in a PR somewhere from which we have so far not extracted it. However, our failure to locate her in 1841, and uncertainties around whether it is her in the 1851 Winchester St Thomas entry, mean that she could have either married or died before 1841, if not before 1811.

As Graham pointed out (11/7): "... ... we have a gap in the Twyford marriages from 1771 to 1811, which might be real, especially as the indication is that there are entries to cover the period, but it is certainly disappointing if true. There being no Lovelock baptisms after 1786 is consistent with the marriage gap I suppose ... ..."

We do have a few Mary Ls in the Compton tree 'accounting' for several of the available BMD records for the wider area, but among the current 'remainder' from our website extracts are a marriage in Winchester St Bartholomew 1809 Jan 17 Mary Lovelock and William Lee (Pallot's Marriage Index) and a burial in Winchester St Peter Chesil 1820 Oct 29 Mary Lovelock 34 (Hampshire Burial Index). The former could possibly be Mary d Thomas and Lydia; the latter only so if the stated age at death is 'out' for a birth in 1781 or 1783/4. [The following additional Mary L marriage in Winchester St Lawrence is no use either here: 1786 Jan 15 Henry Miles and Mary Lovelock (Phillimore's/Boyd's Marriage Index 1754-1812 - and IGI); perhaps it will become relevant to us one day!]

If Mary L b 1821 was not the Witness at her sister Lydia's wedding in 1811 (see above), who was that Mary L? An intriguing speculation is that she might have been one of the Mary L's in the Compton tree, for example Mary née Child(e)s - even that Witness Thomas was that Mary L's husband (and presently progenitor of the Compton tree). This begs rather than demonstrates a connection between these two trees of course.

The foregoing specific bit of speculation by Graham and myself (Robin) arose out of my observing that a remarkable number of different persons named Carter crop up in PR entries involving Lovelocks of the same period in <i>both </i>the H-to-H and the Compton trees. (Including 8-yr-old Martha Carter, in Winchester, "near the Wharf", in 1841, with Thomas L bap 10 Aug 1788 at Compton and his wife Martha (Unknown). Martha (C) could very well be a daughter of Mary née Lovelock, Thomas's sister, who married William Carter at Compton on 31 Aug 1826 (see the Compton tree).<i> [24/8/07: See also speculation by John Lewis on the Lovelock List 19/8/07.] </i> RL (10/7/07) with GL comments (same date) inserted in caps: "The Charles Lovelock who witnessed the marriage of Thomas Carter and Sarah Harris (both of Twyford) in 1830 could well be the Charles (bap 1800 at Compton - Compton tree) who married Mary Ann Cook in 1830. [IN THE APPARENT ABSENCE OF ANY CHARLES IN THE TWYFORD RECORDS BEFORE 1830 I THINK IT'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY. AS SARAH HARRIS WAS A SPINSTER A REASONABLE CONJECTURE WOULD BE THAT CHARLES L AND THOMAS CARTER WERE CONNECTED BY THOMAS BEING A BROTHER-IN-LAW OF CHARLES' SISTER MARY, AND A SLIGHTLY WILDER CONJECTURE WOULD BE THAT LYDIA CARTER WOULD BE A GREAT-AUNT OF THOMAS AND WILLIAM CARTER. BUT WAIT - AM I MISSING ANOTHER TRICK - WHO WAS THE MARY L WHO WITNESSED LYDIA L'S MARRIAGE TO AARON ATWOODS IN 1811?] Charles son of Charles and Mary Ann was born Twyford 1833 according to the IGI and gave Twyford as his birthplace in the 1861, 1871 and 1901 censuses; but he gave St Cross (where his sister Mary Ann was bap 1837) in 1881 and Winchester in 1891. The sister of Charles bap 1800 - Mary (bap Compton 1803) - married William Carter in Compton 1826 (both stated as of Compton). Thomas Lovelock, father of Thomas bap 1779 (and until now H-to-H progenitor), of course married Lydia Carter in 1826 (both of Twyford). Compton and Twyford aren't far apart. ... ... ..."

There is of course no more prima facie justification for assuming that all these Carters were related to each other than that all the Lovelocks concerned were.