Hampshire - Suffolk - Rutland - Herefordshire Tree

Fragment 6 of Collected Lovelock Fragments has Mary Ann born Gibralter [sic]

RL 17/6/07: Ages stated in series of census entries consistent so can probably be confident of birth-year range as shown - i.e. no need for "about".

Family detail from the 1891 and 1901 censuses. Suspect th e two oldest children may be from a previous marriage of Mary Ann's.

RL 16/6/07: The above note has been entered from the earlier HTML version of the tree; the speculation may therefore have been Graham's - or it may have been associated with 'Fragment 6' ('the Wesmill tree') - although in fact both John and Charles are shown there as born in Aldershot (in 1878/9 and 1880/1 respectively) - or it may emanate from discussion around merging the latter with Graham's initial version of the Hants-to-Hereford tree . However that may be, additional data now seems to have 'overtaken' the conjecture. Given the 1881 entry - or rather entries - Frederick and Mary Ann seem to have been married by early 1881 at the latest, and Charles's birth fits with a relatively recent marriage around then. John, however, could still have been born in Malta, <i>and</i> fathered by Frederick, in or out of wedlock; it seems a reasonable assumption that Frederick, as a soldier, served in Malta and met his future wife there.

Note: Frederick Lovelock was not present, since he was at the Army Hospital Corps Depot Aldershot (see individual entry for Frederick Lovelock).

Aldershot, Hampshire North Lane Green Gr Shop RG11 782 F101 P21

Mary Ann Russell;Other (Head);W;70;Green Grocer;Wilts, Marlborough Mary Ann Lovelock;Other (Head);M;27;Soldiers wife;Gibraltar John Lovelock;Daur [sic];;2;;Malta Charles Lovelock;Son;;3m;;Hants, Aldershot Mary E Graham;Wife;M;18;Soldier wife;Ireland, .??... Sarah Page;Wife (Head);M;29;Soldier wife;Essex, Marlow Florance [sic] E Page;Daur;;1;Hants, Aldershot

RL 27/6/07: The above is a revised transcription, following extensive discussion with Graham 20/25 Feb 2007 of aspects of the image and LDS/Ancestry transcriptions.

(i) James's rendering in the 5/3/07 gedcom - also currently [22/6/07] appearing (same data/slightly different layout) in the Lovelock website collection Hampshire 1881 Lovelock entries - was as follows:

Dwelling: North Lane Green Gr Shop Census Place: Aldershot, Hampshire, England Source: FHL Film 1341184 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0782 Folio 101 Page 21 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Mary Ann LOVELOCK M 27 F Gibraltar Rel: Other (Head) Occ: Soldiers Wife Ann LOVELOCK 2 F ... Rel: Daur Charles LOVELOCK 3 m M Aldershot, Hampshire, England Rel: Son Mary H. GRAHAM M 18 F ..., Ireland Rel: Wife Occ: Soldier Wife

(ii) Graham's previous transcription in the collection compiled to support this tree:

North Lane Green Gr Shop, Aldershot, Hants RG11 782 F101 P21

Mary Ann Russell W (sic) 70 Green Grocer Marlborough, Wilts Mary Ann Lovelock Head 27 Soldiers wife Gibraltar John Lovelock Daur(sic) 2 Malta Charles Lovelock Son 3m Aldershot, Hants Mary E Graham Wife 18 Soldiers wife Ireland ...(?) Sarah Page Wife 29 Soldiers wife Marlow, Essex Florance E Page Daur 1 Aldershot, Hants

(iii) Additional material extracted by RL from the LDS CD-ROM, where 3 'separate' 'households'(?) are shown, each with the same address and other reference details cited:

[preceding the 3 Lovelocks and Mary Graham] Mary Ann RUSSELL W 70 F Marlborough, Wiltshire, England Rel: Other (Head) Occ: Green Grocer

....... 3 Lovelocks and Mary Graham as per James's transcription above ........

[following the 3 Lovelocks and Mary Graham] Sarah PAGE M 29 F Marlow, Essex, England Rel: Wife (Head) Occ: Soldier Wife Florence E. PAGE 1 F Aldershot, Hampshire, England Rel: Daur

Discussion: G 20/2: "The 2 year old child may well have been Ann, and is certainly indicated as 'Daur'. However, I am adamant that the Enumerator has written 'John' as the name. There are, of course, two examples of 'Ann' written immediately above it, and whilst they are identical in form to each other (one being slightly smaller) they are nothing like the child's name. I have included the details of everyone who was living in the Greengrocer's shop, as indicated by 'do' entries in the address column, whilst diagonal strokes from the Enumerator to the left of the names indicate members of 4 'families' as you would expect from the surnames. The last child recorded might have had the name Florence, but the Enumerator has written it as Florance. HOWEVER, a further lengthy pondering over the script does lead to one change. The Enumerator has not recorded anybody as being the Head of the household. What I and the LDS transcribers took to be 'Head' against Mary Ann Lovelock is actually 'Mar', although in that column has been added a 'W' to both Mary Ann entries. In the 'Relation to Head of Family' column there is against both Mary Anns a letter which might be a 'U' a 'W' or an 'M'. Since Mary Ann Lovelock, who's the only adult here we're really interested in, is clearly listed as a Soldier's Wife the two W's, or even the one if the other is an M, make no sense at all."

R 21/2: "(i) Re. John/Ann, Daur etc: the 1901 Sholing entry would suggest that 'Daur' rather than 'John' is the more likely error in the 1881 would it not? (I mean that to be a judgement on balance with regard to other data we have, rather than simply a 'preferential' reading of one entry vs another!) Ages given seem to fit rather well as between the two years - or am I missing something? I note Malta/Gibraltar variation re. Mary Ann's birthplace and that the H-to-H tree 'as is' has the latter. ........... (ii) James ...... seems: (a) to've taken the LDS transcription pretty much at face value - especially as regards 3 rather than 4 households/families, although that could be a slip on the transcriber's part given your observation re. the 'diagonal strokes'; (b) only to've included the Lovelock household (taken, rightly or wrongly, to include Mary E (or H!) Graham). (Malta as Ann/John's birthplace is also missing from the LDS version.) (iii) I think the Enumerator may've been trying to make sense of a complicated multi-family/multi-'household' (as defined for enumeration purposes) set-up, and to render sensibly and at the same time marital status, de facto HofH status (with absentee soldier husbands/fathers), and 'real' HofH (i.e. Head of Family as and when present) status. In that context and with other possible 'issues' involved, s/he understandably perhaps used 'W' for Wife in places as well as (maybe) for Widow - which (lacking other data that I'm aware of) Mary Ann Russell and even Mary E (or H) Graham could have been." {This interpretation implicitly/broadly agreed by GL.}

R 23/2: "...... could you kindly recheck the image you have access to re. 'Mary E'/'Mary H' ........" G 23/2: "As it happens there are three other capital aitches on the page, which are differently formed from the letter in Mary Graham's name. There are also seven capital eees which are similar to, but different to that mysterious letter. However, there are more similarities in the letter to one of the eees, in the form of two loops, that this possibly over-rides the existence of a third loop, and an additional vertical stroke to the left which is what led me to think it was an aitch. Suggest in summary that we go with an eeee."

RL 27/6/07: Replaced a previous transcription - small additions/differences. Discussed, in particular, during exchange 20/23 Feb 2007, leading to revised transcription - see note.

19 School Road, Hound, Hampshire, England RG12 923 F79 P21

Frederick Lovelock;Head;M;37;Coal Porter;Hants, Winchester Mary Ann Lovelock;Wife;M;36;Shirt Maker;Malta John A G S Lovelock;Son;Scholar;12;;Malta Charles Lovelock;Son;;9;Scholar;Hants, Aldershot Mary Ann E Lovelock;Daur;;3m;;Hants, Sholing

RL 28/6/07: See email discussion with Graham concerning Hound/Sholing/Southampton/Hampshire, 9/13 March 2007 - re. which is the most appropriate census place/parish to cite; relevant to this entry and to the 1901s for Frederick and Mary Ann and for their son John (by then married) and his family. Agreed transcription above.

Extracts previously shown:

Supplied by Nigel Gerdes 30 Nov 2005: 19 School Rd, Hound, St Mary, Sholing, Southampton Fredrick Lovelock b ca 1854 born Winchester, Coal Porter wife Mary Ann born Malta

Supplied by Graham 12 Feb 2006: FreeCEN record: Piece: RG12/923 Place: South Stoneham-Hampshire Enumeration District: 10 Civil Parish: Hound Ecclesiastical Parish: Sholing Folio: 79 Page: 21 Schedule: 125 Address: 19 School Road Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks LOVELOCK Frederick Head M M 37 Coal Porter(Em'ee) Hampshire - Winchester LOVELOCK Mary Ann Wife M F 36 Shirt Maker(Em'ee) Overseas - British - Malta LOVELOCK John A.B.S. Son - M 12 Scholar Overseas - British - Malta LOVELOCK Charles Son - M 9 Scholar Hampshire - Aldershot LOVELOCK Mary Ann E. Daur - F 3m Hampshire - Sholing

RL 24/6/07: Nigel seems to've supplied the (partial) extract including only Frederick and wife Mary Ann.

RL 24/6/07: Graham supplied the FreeCen record.

RL 28/6/07: Replaced a previous transcription - small additions/differences. See email exchange 9/13 March 2007.

Middle Road, Sholing, Hampshire, England RG13 1063 F67 P3

Frederick Lovelock;Head;M;49;Ships Cook;Hants, Winchester Mary A Lovelock;Wife;M;47;Malta (British Subject) Mary A Lovelock;Daur;;10;;Hants, Sholing

RL 28/6/07: See email discussion with Graham concerning Hound/Sholing/Southampton/Hampshire, 9/13 March 2007 - re. which is the most appropriate census place/parish to cite; relevant to this entry, the 1891 for Frederick and Mary Ann, and the 1901 for their son John (by then married) and his family. Agreed transcription above.

Presumably this from Nigel Gerdes 30-Nov-05: "At Sholing but now a Ship's cook. Wife born Malta (British Subject)"

Graham Lovelock, e-mail 26-Jan-06:

Middle Rd, Sholing RG13 1063 F67 P3

Frederick Lovelock Head 49 Ships Cook Winchester, Hants Mary A Lovelock Wife 47 Malta (British Subject) Mary A Lovelock Daur 10 Sholing, Hants

RL 28/6/07: Replaced a previous transcription - small additions/differences. See email exchange 9/13 March 2007.

46 Hawthorn Place, Middle Road, Sholing, Southampton, Hampshire, England RG14 PN6039 RG78 PN275 RD100 SD1 ED17 SN283

Frederick Lovelock;Head;57;Army Pensioner;Winchester, Hants Mary An (sic) Lovelock;Wife, married 34 years;56;Live at home;In Malta Resident England Mary Lovelock;Daur;20; Government Laundry R V Hospital Netley;Sholing, Southampton Ethel Mary lwod (?) Lovelock;Adopt child;9;;Southampton, Hants